activating SAR v3

For all issues involving the Smart Alternator Regulators, V1, V2 and V3

activating SAR v3

Postby alchemy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:42 am

To Ample Power Tech support:
When installing (swapping) the alternator regulator, SAR v3, which regulates a Genie 150, I caused sparks to fly when I neglected to remember that some of the wires were hot (I know, stupid in the extreme) and left them exposed to my screwdriver causing a short. I do not know what wires were involved in this event. All were exposed at that moment. I then:
1. Installed the regulator and tested those wires with fuses (B+, battery volts and limit) and replaced fuses as needed. All now have continuity to battery bank from the regulator.
2. With fingers crossed attempted to run the GS. Unable to get reg activated. Nothing happened when I flipped up the regulator switch on the panel.
3. Went through Ample trouble shooting checklist and found one discrepancy in column A (no ignition), temp sensor +. Two discrepancies arose when doing column B (ignition on & engine not running), on/off and field. Column C (ignition on & running was same as column B results). (see below for full report)
4. There is good continuity along wire from field connection at reg to the alternator. The alt and rectifier have been tested and are good.
5. There is good continuity from on/off terminal connection on regulator to hour’s connection on Run Controller. This connection runs through the regulator switch on the Genie control/instrument panel. With regulator switch at the panel off, ohms reads 1.983; with switch on there is continuity. The on/off lead at the regulator gets its power from pigtailing onto the hour’s positive lead. Somehow the 12 v power does not get into the hour lead to activate the on/off wire on the reg when the reg switch on the panel is flipped on.
6. With that in mind, I wondered whether the Run Controller was bad. I swapped Run Controller for spare with no change in readings.
I do not know what to do next and am hoping for some suggestions.
Thank you very much for your thoughts.
Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy, Antibes, France

SAR v3 Troubleshooting sheet
ROW Col A Col B Col C
1 not connected
2 on/off 0.00 0.00 0.00
3 ground 0.00 0.00 0.00
4 B+ 12.3 12.3 12.2
5 field 0.00 0.00 0.00
6 alt grd 0.00 0.00 0.00
7 not connected
8 bat v 12.3 12.3 12.2
9 T- blk 0.00 0.00 0.00
10 T+ red 2.98 2.98 2.98
11/12/13 not connected
14 limit 12.3 12.3 12.2
15 not connected
alchemy
 
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Re: activating SAR v3

Postby alchemy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:26 am

Update; Continue to check all wiring. The problem appears to be with getting 12v to the on/off terminal on the SAR. So I decided to circumvent the switch and bring 12v to the on/off terminal on the SAR directly. I ran a wire from the batt bank pos directly to the on/off terminal and got readings on Col B where I had none before. It was 12.67 (on/off) and 10.04 (field). Both read 0.00 before the circumvention.. The 10.04 is beyond the 1.5v range that the SAR troubleshooting guide gives for. The figures are better but something is amiss still.
alchemy
 
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Re: activating SAR v3

Postby Coulomb on Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:41 am

What are the LEDs doing?

It looks like there is some wiring problem with ignition on/off.

Field voltage on a good regulator is no more than about 0.3V from B+. A higher voltage indicates a very high field current, or a bad field driver in the regulator.

To make this measurement, turn on the regulator but don't run the engine. The regulator will 'full field' the alternator. Now measure the voltage difference between the field output and the B+ input.
Coulomb
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Re: activating SAR v3

Postby alchemy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:15 am

There are no error code LEDs. The status LED is reading 3 on/3 off (on/off input off).Agreed; wiring for on/off is a problem. I find good continuity through regulator switch on the Genie panel from “hours” on Run Controller (terminal 9) to “on/off” terminal on SAR (terminal 2) so 12v does not seem to be getting into the circuit somehow. Also when bypassing regulator switch on the panel and running 12v straight to the “on/off” terminal on the SAR from the battery bank, the field voltage goes to 2.6v below battery state (or B+), quite beyond the 1.5v that the troubleshooting guide gives. (12.67 & 10.04 respectively).
Appreciate any thoughts on further diagnostic testing I can do.
alchemy
 
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Re: activating SAR v3

Postby Coulomb on Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:18 pm

I edited my previous post.

You need B+ on the TB of the Genie panel. From there, it goes through the keyswitch, and through the regulator on/off switch to the regulator.
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Re: activating SAR v3

Postby alchemy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:52 pm

Sorry, my apologies, I am confused. My schematics have no connection between B+ and the regulator toggle switch for on/off on the instr panel for the Genie 150. My B+ goes from glow/start/stop switch to a circuit breaker to control panel TB to engine TB to engine on the hot side of the starter motor positive input. It is hot its whole length. Should the regulator toggle switch for on/off on the instr. panel be picking up its 12v along this run somehow? My schematics indicate the regulator toggle switch on the instr. panel picks up its 12v from a pigtail on the pos input for the hours run meter on the panel. However, it seems to me, as long as it is switchable, the 12v for the SAR on/off could come from anywhere. Thanks.
alchemy
 
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Re: activating SAR v3

Postby Coulomb on Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:32 pm

B+ arrives on TB-1 of the Genie Panel. When the control switch is in the 'Run' position it applies B+ to TB-5. That goes to the Genie Controller, Tab 1 and comes back out of the Controller on Tab 10, where it is called 'Hours'. That signal goes back to TB-6 to power the Hours Meter and the Reg. On/Off switch.

To get B+ back out on Tab 10 of the Controller, you have to have oil pressure and not an overheated engine. That is, the engine has to be running and not overheated.
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Re: activating SAR v3

Postby alchemy on Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:13 am

Thanks very much for the tracking of the B+ wire through the Run Controller. I follow 12v along the B+ and along “Run” to tab 1 on the Run Controller. 12v is going into the Run Controller at tab 1. It does not come out at tab 10. Not under any conditions, but most importantly not with the genset running, oil pressure good, water not overheated and the regulator toggle in either position. In other words, I am not getting 12v through Run Controller (into hours) to activate the SAR when the regulator toggle switch on the panel is flipped. Thanks for your continued help.
alchemy
 
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Re: activating SAR v3

Postby Coulomb on Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:51 am

AARGH! I jumped a line on the schematic. The 'Hours' signal comes out on Pin 9, not 10.

BTW Pins 6, 7, 8, and 9 are all connected together on the PCB. Since the other functions must be working for the engine to run,
there appears to be an interruption between the Controller and the Regulator. Inline fuse?
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Re: activating SAR v3

Postby alchemy on Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:25 pm

No worries, I caught the error. Agreed, there appears to be an interruption btwn the Run Controller and the Regulator having to do with the on/off circuit. I know of no in/line fuse but that makes sense considering a short started this whole mess. Short of taking apart the whole wiring harness and checking and tracking wires individually their whole length I am not sure what to do next.
I have to relocate because of heavy winds forecast so if I take a day or so to respond, that is the likely reason. Thanks, Dick
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