Genie laboring and drop off in amperage

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Re: Genie laboring and drop off in amperage

Postby Coulomb on Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:43 pm

Opening the fuel fill cap should vent the tank.

We used a one gallon can that had formerly been used for syrup. A hose barb was soldered into the can and plumbed directly to the injection pump, with the can hung above the engine. That's the best way to isolate the problem of fuel delivery.
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Re: Genie laboring and drop off in amperage

Postby alchemy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:23 pm

Yes, a nice system. In checking for fuel quality problems a worker brought a gallon jug of fresh and plumbed it in. It was not gravity fed but took the fuel tank out of the system. I will be away for a couple of days and will crack the fill cap upon my return. Thanks, Dick
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Re: Genie laboring and drop off in amperage

Postby alchemy on Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:31 am

Ran GS with fuel filler cap ajar. Still laboring. Had water heater on (off invertor) drawing 70 amps for 30 minutes. During this time battery Bank was getting 45 amps decreasing to 35 so total draw on GS was in vicinity of 125 or so. When turned off the water heater and there was only battery charging of 40 amps the rpm increased markedky. Thanks for your thoughts, Dick
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Re: Genie laboring and drop off in amperage

Postby alchemy on Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:33 am

What is the “throttle solenoid” that I read about in the AP Genie installation & wiring manual? The speed adjusting (control) lever is locked in its wide open position and always has been. I understood the solenoid to be a simple on/off for fuel flow operated by the key on the panel and by the various sensors. Does this solenoid also regulate the throttle as the sentence “Check the throttle solenoid to assure that it fully engages the throttle”? Thanks, Dick
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Re: Genie laboring and drop off in amperage

Postby alchemy on Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:59 am

Answered own question above when, in a different part of the manual, found a note indicating that my unit (2006) does not have a throttle solenoid. Sorry, Dick
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Re: Genie laboring and drop off in amperage

Postby alchemy on Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:14 am

Dear Ample Power,
I ran the system with the fuel cap ajar and met with the same symptoms. I include below a summary of the problem with what has been done so far to track down the cause. Thanks, Dick

02 Dec 2010
THE EQUIPMENT
A DC generator, the Ample Power Genie, model G12-150, using:
Kubota EL 300-E2-ER. code #, 1G106-00000. s/n, 5E0998, model # E300-ES attached to a 150 amp, 12 volt alternator with a remote diode pack (rectifier).
The unit has 850 hours of use.
PRESENT SYMPTOMS
The genset (GS) starts normally. When the alternator starts to charge, sometimes within a few minutes but at times taking 30 to 40 minutes, the GS starts to sound overloaded, sometimes getting to the point of stalling. Turning off the alternator returns the GS to normal sounding RPM. This has been the primary symptom that has been unable to be solved.
OTHER SYMPTOMS (may or may not be related)
1. Electrical problem, loose alternator wires and overheated rectifier wires (see below).
2. For all this season, the GS has been hard to get up to operating temperature.
WHAT HAS BEEN DONE
The following has been checked and/or replaced by BCN:
1. Fuel hose
2. Lift pump
3. Fuel solenoid
4. Injector high pressure fuel pump (swapped for new)
5. Injector nozzle (removed, bench tested and re-installed)
6. Cylinder compression
7. Fuel quality
8. Valve clearance adjustment
9. Throttle setting
10. Oil (changed)

Checked by other professionals:
1. Alternator and rectifier
2. Oil analysis done at a mid- season oil change is normal (before symptoms).
Checked also:
1. Exhaust elbow removed, normal, cleaned & re-installed
2. Cooling water flow good
3. Air filter normal, swapped for new
4. Oil pressure & level normal
5. No black smoke out of exhaust. Exhaust looks normal. Un-burnt fuel on water when GS is laboring.
6. Alternator & rectifier are staying cool. All terminals cool and intact.
7. Replaced both rectifier and regulator with spares.
8. Replaced belts for alternator.
9. Fuel filter clean, vacuum gauge good. Propulsion eng running off same fuel system runs fine at cruising rpm.
10. Opened fuel filler cap while GS running to see if breather vent for fuel tank clogged. Symptoms still arose.
HISTORY
Sequence of events:
1. Oct 3. Smoke comes out of genset (GS) area. I immediately shut it down. No discernable evidence of where the smoke came from but did find the belts loose. Decided to replace belts and then found alt loose at pivot bolt as well 2 of the 3 positive leads on the alt going to the remote diode assembly (rectifier) loose. Remedied.
2. Ran GS through one full charging cycle and all seemed good.
3. All seemed good for a couple of days running the GS for about 1 ¼ hr each day.
4. Oct 6-7. Thought I heard the GS lugging (laboring) a bit at onset of charging when the GS is being asked to put out full power. Seemed ok when amperage output went down and ran a full cycle of charging.
5. Oct. 8. Continue to think I hear a very slight laboring.
6. Oct 9. Run GS and continue to think I hear lugging. After a few minutes I hear the GS starting to wind down to a stall and I flick off the regulator just before stall and the rpm increases. I give it a minute or 2 and flick on the regulator again. Output again full, and even though lugging, the GS stays running, but the amperage output decreases rapidly and after 5-10 minutes goes down to 20+ amps output when it should be putting out much more. The GS also just does not sound strong.
7. I explored the rectifier where I found the insulation on one of the 3 wires going to the stator taps from the alternator was charred at the end and down about 3-4 inches. The whole area looked like it had endured high heat. The connection was tight so I have no idea what caused the heat buildup. The rectifier itself looked fine and tested fine with a diode tester; just the terminal bolt looked like it had been hot. I cut back to good insulation & metal on the wire and replaced the terminal.
8. Took alternator and rectifier to shop for bench testing. All fine.
9. The GS, while still sounding weak, ran through one cycle of charging.
10. The next cycle the same symptoms of laboring and stalling occurred.
alchemy
 
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Re: Genie laboring and drop off in amperage

Postby Coulomb on Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:15 am

What current will the unit maintain without stalling?

Have you run the unit with a gravity tank as suggested earlier.

Have you bled the system at the injector?

I'm convinced you have a fuel delivery issue, which has been the case in every other similar situation.
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Re: Genie laboring and drop off in amperage

Postby alchemy on Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:02 am

I agree. The problem has all the feel of a fuel issue.
I have been running the GS for the last couple of days with the current limited to 125 amps. There has been no stalling at this demand level.
I ran the GS with a feed to the high pressure fuel pump directly (bypassing the lift pump and the solenoid) using a fuel polishing system with a small pump. A pure gravity fed system seemed hard to cobble together (I could siphon with an outboard fuel hose with squeeze bulb?) and this seemed to address the questions relating to the lift pump and solenoid.
I have been bleeding at the nut 12mm on the top of the high pressure injector pump.
alchemy
 
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Re: Genie laboring and drop off in amperage

Postby alchemy on Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:24 am

An additional consideration for the fuel problem is that, at times, the GS puts out 145amps, full load, without a problem (which should be its highest fuel demand). It did so 2 days ago and ran without any discernable problem for 45 minutes when, at an output of 120 amps, it started bogging down and stalling. So, if a fuel problem, it is not one that manifests itself at all fuel demand levels. Today, we ran the GS for 60 minutes at 125 amps decreasing to 100 amps without a problem. Dick
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Re: Genie laboring and drop off in amperage

Postby Coulomb on Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:20 pm

It's a fuel problem.
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